WASHINGTON—U.S. Senator Chris Murphy (D-Conn.), a member of the U.S. Senate Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions Committee, on Thursday questioned Linda McMahon at a hearing on her nomination for Secretary of Education. Murphy pressed McMahon on how a Trump administration executive order restricting federal funding for DEI programs will impact schools across the country. McMahon refused to provide clarity for the thousands of teachers and school administrators who are wondering whether offering African American history courses, supporting cultural student groups, or celebrating Black History Month will put their federal funding at risk.

A full transcript of Murphy’s exchange with McMahon can be found below

MURPHY: “Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Ms. McMahon, good to see you. You and I have spent a lot of time over the years, and I appreciate your willingness to sit before the committee and answer some really important questions.

“I want to talk to you about an executive order that the Trump administration issued that commands agencies, including the Department of Education, to eliminate grants to organizations and entities that support DEI programs and activities. As you know, this has a lot of schools all across the country scrambling, because they have no idea what that means. They don't know because the order doesn't define DEI as to whether they are in compliance or out of compliance, and whether they are going to have their federal grants compromised. How does a school know whether it’s running a DEI program or not?”

MCMAHON: “Well certainly, and thank you Senator, and it is good to see you again outside of the state of Connecticut, where we run into each other. DEI, I think, has been–it’s a program that's tough. It was put in place ostensibly for more diversity, for equity and inclusion. And I think what we're seeing is that it's having an opposite effect. We are getting back to more segregating of our schools, instead of having more inclusion in our schools. When there are DEI programs that say that Black students need separate graduation ceremonies or Hispanics need separate ceremonies, we are not achieving what we wanted to achieve with inclusion.”

MURPHY: “Let me give you an example then. So this order applies to Department of Defense schools, and those schools have canceled all programming around Black History Month. So if a school in Connecticut celebrates Martin Luther King Day and has a series of events and programming teaching about Black history, are they in violation of a policy that says schools should stop running DEI programs?”

MCMAHON: “Not in my view, that is clearly not the case. The celebration of Martin Luther King Day and Black History Month should be celebrated throughout all of our schools. I believe that Martin Luther King was one of the strongest proponents of making sure that we look at all of our populations, when he said that he would hope that his children wouldn't be judged by the color of their skin, but the content of their character, and I think that is the fundamental basis that we should celebrate Black History Month.”

MURPHY: “West Point has closed down all ethnic clubs. So the Society of Black Engineers can no longer meet because they believe that to be in compliance with this order, they cannot have groups structured around ethnic or racial affiliations. Would public schools be in violation of this order? Would they risk funding if they had clubs that students could belong to based on their racial or ethnic identity?” 

MCMAHON: “Well, I certainly today don't want to address hypothetical situations. I would like, once I'm confirmed, to get in and assess these programs, look at what has been covered–”

MURPHY: “Isn’t that a pretty easy one? I mean, you're saying that it's a possibility that if a school has a club for Vietnamese American students or Black students, where they meet after school, that they could be potentially in jeopardy of receiving federal funding?”

MCMAHON: “Again, I would like to fully understand what that order is and what those clubs are doing.”

MURPHY: “That’s pretty chilling. I think schools all around the country are going to hear that. What about educational programming centered around specific ethnic and racial experiences? My son is in a public school. He takes a class called African American History. If you are running an African American history class, could you perhaps be in violation of this executive order?”

MCMAHON: “I’m not quite certain, and I’d like to look into it further and get back to you on that.”

MURPHY: “So there's a possibility– there's a possibility, you’re saying– that public schools that run African American history classes, right, this is a class that has been taught in public schools for decades, could lose federal funding if they continue to teach African American history?”

MCMAHON: “No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that I would like to take a look at these programs and fully understand the breadth of the executive order and get back to you on that.”

MURPHY: “I think you are going to have a lot of educators and a lot of principals and administrators scrambling right now. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, my time’s expired.”

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