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WASHINGTON – U.S. Senator Chris Murphy (D-Conn.), member of the U.S. Senate Committee on Foreign Relations, on Wednesday questioned President-elect Donald Trump’s nominee to be the U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations, South Carolina Governor Nikki Haley. Murphy pressed Haley on the uncertain foreign policy terrain with countries like Russia and China and urged continued robust support of the United Nations.

Murphy is a vocal advocate of robust American diplomacy and a more limited use of military power. He, along with U.S. Senators Brian Schatz (D-Hawaii) and Martin Heinrich (D-N.M.), laid out new, forward-looking foreign policy principles to guide America’s role as a global leader in the 21st Century.

 

Full transcript of the Murphy and Haley exchange is below:

MURPHY: Thank you Mr. Chairman. Thank you Governor Haley for being willing to serve. Thank you for your history of speaking truth to power. I enjoyed the time we spent together discussing some of the issues you are going to face. I appreciate you being here before the committee. So I say this respectively, I sort of feel like the hearings we’ve had – this hearing and the hearing on Secretary of State nominee Tillerson – have occurred in an alternate universe. I hear loud and clear what you’re saying about the United States to be clear about where we stand and to be strong in our values. I think that Mr. Tillerson used the same phrasing over and over again, and I think we would all agree that those should be goals of U.S. foreign policy.

But President-elect Trump has downplayed Russian attempts to influence our election. He’s suggested that NATO is obsolete. He’s openly rooted for the break-up of the European Union. He’s lavished praised on Vladimir Putin and refused to commit to continuing sanctions. He’s criticized one of our most important allies in the world, Chancellor Merkel. He’s promised to bring back torture. And he’s called for Japan and South Korea to take a look at obtaining nuclear weapons because they probably can’t rely on our security guarantee any longer. So I hear what you’re saying. But can you understand why right now the world perceived the Trump administration’s foreign policy to be the exact opposite of clear about where we stand and strong in our values? I hear what you’re saying, but can you understand how the world perceives foreign policy to be the exact opposite of what you’re articulating it will be?

HALEY: I understand that any time there is a new administration, there is always nervousness and there is always concern. It happened with President Obama, it’s happened with presidents before that. That’s something that Is just natural. It’s natural to the world to all watch the United States because we are such a leader to see who’s going to follow it. And it’s also natural for a candidate or an incoming president to look at everything and to say things. Once you govern, it becomes very different. And I think that what we have seen is that once the President-elect gets to hear from his national security team, I think what he says after that will be most important. I think those are the focus that we are going to have with the National Security Council—and making sure that we educate and inform him of what we know, inform him of strategies, and go along with any decision he decides to make.

MURPHY: And I heard a version of this in your answer to Senator Shaheen—so you believe that after two years of suggesting radical changes regarding U.S. policy about conveying really muddled messages of where we stand, that that’s all going to change after Friday?

HALEY: Not all of it will change after Friday, but what I know is I’m going to control the parts that I can, and what I can control is the U.N. So I’m going to use the power of my voice in the U.N. to talk about American ideals, and our values, and our strengths, and our freedoms. I’m going to talk to the President-elect about the U.N. and the opportunities for strategy in dealing with Russia and China and North Korea and Syria as we go forward. And I think we are going to have a lot of opportunities to make that better. And I do think that my counterparts as well are going to inform the President-elect on what they’re seeing. And so, you know, that’s how an administration works. You surround yourself with people who don’t just say yes to what you think. They actually challenge you and they tell you of other opinions. And what I know about the President-elect is he actually will listen.

MURPHY: Let me ask you about the future of the U.N. You have a lot of Democrats in South Carolina who don’t get what they want all the time from the legislature and from their Governor. So, would you advise Democrats in the state legislature in South Carolina to boycott the state legislature if they don’t get what they want or for registered Democrats in South Carolina to stop paying their taxes If they don’t get what they want from the state government?

HALEY: Well we have laws in place, so they can’t just stop paying their taxes or they will deal with that. Legislators have been known to do whatever they want. As Governor, I’ve seen that happen. So it’s two totally different things.

MURPHY: I guess, you understand why I’m making the point. The reason that we invest in the U.N. It’s not because we expect to win every fight. It’s not because we expect to have our views prevail. But because we think it’s important to have a deliberative body in which differences can be expressed out in the open, rather than always dealt with behind closed doors. And the risk of pulling funding because the United States doesn’t get its way is potentially catastrophic. The U.N. provides food for 90 million people in 80 countries around the world. It vaccinates 40% of the world’s children. It assists 55 million refugees and people fleeing wars, famine, or persecution. And it provides maternal health care to 30 million vulnerable women. So I guess my question is, you’re suggesting that we should pull funding from the United Nations if we don’t win votes in the General Assembly…

HALEY: I’ve never suggested that, sir. And if that’s the way you took it, then that was not what I intended to say. I do not we think we need to pull money from the U.N. We don’t believe in slash and burn. It didn’t—it wasn’t anything I considered as Governor. It’s not something I would consider as ambassador or anything that would suggest back to you for Congress. I think that’s what important is that we look at every organization, see if it’s working for us, see if it’s something we want to be a part of, and then I report back to you as well as the President-elect as to whether that’s something we need to be a part of. I know that he has made comments about the U.N., but those are not my feelings, and I don’t think that’s what’s going to happen.

MURPHY: I really thank you for that answer. I think that’s a really important answer. So I’m want to just ask you to make that answer a little clearer. So you don’t believe that we should be threatening to pull funds based on outcomes in the General Assembly that we don’t agree with. You would pull funds if you don’t think that programs are effective, but you wouldn’t pull funds because we don’t get the outcome that we want from the deliberative process.

HALEY: Right, my job is to make sure and figure out how we get the outcomes and to negotiate and to make sure I’m working with those leaders to do that. If, for example, we see in the Human Rights Council that Cuba’s there and China’s there, and we don’t see the human rights move in a way that American values are supposed to, yes, I’m going to come back to you and say this is a real problem and this doesn’t follow our mission. I may go there and find out that there’s a way to resolve that. So with those, I will come back to you. But no, I don’t think we should have a slash and burn of the U.N.

MURPHY: I appreciate that. I’ll just note that since rejoining the Humans Rights Council (we were out of it from 2007 to 2009), once we rejoined, special sessions on Israel dropped by 50% and resolutions on Israel dropped by 30%. So engagement in these forums does matter. So I appreciate your answer on this question.

HALEY: And I look forward to looking into that.

MURPHY: Thank you very much.

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