WASHINGTON—U.S. Senator Chris Murphy (D-Conn.), a member of the U.S. Senate Foreign Relations Committee, on Wednesday questioned U.S. Senator Marco Rubio at a hearing on his nomination for U.S. Secretary of State. Murphy voiced concerns about the Trump family’s foreign business dealings and challenged Rubio on how he would navigate corruption, national security priorities, and America’s standing as a global leader. He also pressed Rubio on his plans for addressing competition with China, promoting Middle East security, and combatting foreign disinformation to safeguard democracy and human rights around the world.

A full transcript of Murphy’s exchange with Rubio can be found below:

MURPHY: “Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. That is, indeed, good news. Senator Rubio, I want to talk to you about a topic that I think is going to be real trouble for you and for U.S. national security interests, at least for the first few minutes of my time, and that’s the growing personal financial entanglement of President Trump, his family, and Middle East governments. I’ll give you an example of what I’m talking about. 

“For nearly eight years, the Trump Organization has been pursuing a real estate deal to build a hotel complex in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia. During President Trump’s first term, the Trump Organization actually voluntarily committed to refrain from pursuing real estate deals with foreign companies, especially those that are backed by foreign governments. So the deal didn’t go through. And then it remained stalled for the entirety of the Biden administration. And then, magically, 30 days after the November election, Saudi Arabia’s biggest construction company, that’s affiliated with the government, announced that the deal was going forward, alongside an additional $200 million deal for a Trump property in Oman.

“Now, it used to be that somebody with these big financial business interests would come into government and take actions, like setting up a blind trust or divestment, in order to make sure there was no connection between their personal financial interests and the business they were conducting in government. But President Trump has just done the opposite. 

“Over the last eight years, while he was in office and since he’s been out of office, he and his family have become more deeply dependent on revenue from governments in the Middle East. During his last presidency, Middle East interests sent around $10 million to Trump properties. After he left office, Trump’s son-in-law, Jared Kushner, who was his primary Middle East envoy, was handed $2 billion in investment by the Saudis, even though a Saudi investment board said the investment was a bad business decision. That investment actually comes up for renewal in 2026, giving the Saudis massive leverage over the Trump family.

“And then to make matters worse, right after the election, the Trump Organization said that in this term – the president-elect’s second term – it would drop its previous prohibition on doing new deals in the Middle East with private foreign companies aligned with foreign governments. So, the Trump Organization is going to be signing new business deals in the Middle East with private companies that have connections to foreign governments at the very moment that you are going to be conducting sensitive diplomacy in these countries.

“That’s just extraordinary. Never before in the history of this country has a president been literally receiving cash from foreign governments, and from foreign companies that are backed by foreign governments in the middle of their term. If you or I had done this as Senators, we would be in violent violation of Senate ethics rules. That’s not permitted on the Foreign Relations Committee.

“So I guess my question to you is a pretty simple one. Do you see how this fundamentally compromises your diplomatic efforts? Do you have an issue, or will you raise an issue with the President, about his growing financial connection with the governments that you are going to be negotiating with?”

RUBIO: “Well first of all, I am neither authorized nor in any position to give you any insights into any of these arrangements you pointed out. You mentioned Jared Kushner as an example. He is a private citizen, happens to be a Floridian. I don't know what if any engagement he has in the work that’s going on now. I can tell you what I know – obviously I’m not at the State Department yet – but I can tell you as an example, the President's envoy to that region, Steve Witkoff, who was charged with being an envoy towards reaching an accommodation between the Israelis and the Saudis, has been working cooperatively and together with the Biden administration. And, in fact, I dare to say that all involved deserve credit for the ceasefire that the Chairman’s just announced, but Steve Witkoff has been a critical component of it, and he has been involved in it from day one. 

“I think the broader consideration about whether we want to see a Saudi-Israeli mutual recognition and relationship would be one of the most historic developments in the history of the region for all of the factors we discussed here today. It would be – and one of the impediments to it has been this conflict and the ongoing conflict, and the lack of a ceasefire. I also think it’s going to be important for the Saudis and others to be participants in post-conflict stabilization efforts in Gaza and beyond. So, all I can tell you is what I have said from the very beginning, from my opening statement, and that is our foreign policy is going to be driven – as the President has made abundantly clear – by whether some action is in the interest of the United States and our national security. And that is what it is going to be driven by, and that’s how all these policies should be judged by, and that’s certainly the job that I have been tasked with executing on.”

MURPHY: “Well let me then simply ask you this question: Do you believe that the President should refrain from doing new business deals with Middle East governments during his term in office?”

RUBIO: “The President doesn't manage that company. His family members do, and they have a right to be in the business. That’s the business that they are in. They’re in the real estate business. They’ve been for a very long time, both domestically and abroad. They have properties in multiple countries. So at the end of the day, his family is entitled to continue to operate their business. The fundamental question is not whether his family’s involved in business, the fundamental question is whether that is in any way impacting the conduct of our foreign policy in a way that’s counter to our national interests. And the President has made it abundantly clear that every decision he makes and every decision we are to make at the State Department should be driven by whether or not it serves the core national interests of the United States. And that is how I hope our policies will be judged by, not what business his family is conducting while the President is here in Washington working, not on his business, but from the Oval Office.”

MURPHY: “You are correct, that is the fundamental question, whether or not a policy is being pursued in U.S. national security interests or due to the President's personal financial interest. That is the reason why, as United States Senators, we are not allowed to have complicated existing financial arrangements with foreign governments, because you do not want to create the impression that there is a conflict of motivation, and I just wished that this President applied to this incoming administration the same rules that we hold ourselves to as United States Senators. 

“Senator Rubio, in the time I have remaining, I just want to tackle two other topics. One that I know is of mutual concern to you and I, and that’s the need to confront China in non-military ways as they try to exert influence around the world. Last time President Trump was in office, he was calling for pretty massive cuts to the State Department's budget. But as you know, China uses all sorts of non-kinetic tools, like misinformation, economic diplomacy, around the world, to exert influence. I am hopeful that you are going to be an active voice to try to make sure that you have the tools, including when it comes to combating Russian and Chinese misinformation, to be able to confront all of the ways, many of them asymmetric, that China in particular, but Russia as well, presents challenges to U.S. interests. Just wanted to get your commitment to make sure to build that full comprehensive foreign policy toolkit.” 

RUBIO: “Not only have I been so concerned about foreign disinformation, I’ve been the target of it, from multiple nation-states. And I have learned over time that the best way to confront disinformation is through a flood of free speech that allows the counter points of view to be heard and understood. I think where we get ourselves into trouble – and we have learned this now, and I think multiple U.S. companies are now admitting [this] – is when we get ourselves into a position of determining what is true and what is not, and then using the tools of government to go after them, particularly when it implicates domestic entities. But yes, it is one of the tools that they have in their toolbox. 

“By the way, it’s not just disinformation. It is flat out influencing nation-states’ views of the United States writ large by promoting conspiracy theories internally and [in] other countries that undermine us, and that undermine our standing, whether it is in Africa – and increasingly you see it in the Western Hemisphere as well. One of the best ways to combat that is to be present, to be there, to show what we do and to brag about what we do. One of the things that frustrates me the most is there are literally programs within USAID where they do not allow us to label it as ‘made in America’ or ‘a gift of the American people’ because it might offend someone locally. I think it’s important for the world to know what the United States is doing to help their societies. We do not do a good enough job of promoting what we have done historically, and continue to do, to help our fellow man around the world.”

MURPHY: “Yeah, China is spending $10 billion per year on that propaganda and misinformation operation. They celebrate when budgets get sent up to the Hill that propose big increases in military spending and giant decreases in the kind of tools that are available to you, so I do look forward to working with you to make sure that we’ve given you that full suite of tools necessary to confront our adversaries.”

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