WASHINGTON—U.S. Senator Chris Murphy (D-Conn.), Chairman of the U.S. Senate Foreign Relations Subcommittee on Near East, South Asia, Central Asia and Counterterrorism, spoke on Thursday at a U.S. Senate Foreign Relations Committee hearing about the potentially devastating consequences of designating the Houthis in Yemen as a Foreign Terrorist Organization (FTO). Murphy also discussed why the maximum pressure strategy in Iran was a failure.

On the potential designation of the Houthis in Yemen as an FTO, Murphy said: “And as to this question of the designation of the Houthis as an FTO, we have to deal in the world of reality, right? Separate and aside from what you think that term means, the practical impact of designating the Houthis as an FTO is famine. Is famine. And that's not me making that claim. That's the UN. That’s the World Food Programme.”

Murphy continued: “Now, maybe that's a flaw of our statutes, right, that the designation of an entity as a foreign terrorist organization has such extreme consequences for the people of that country. But that is the reality. And so, we have to think seriously about whether we want to subject millions of Yemenis to starvation as a consequence of that designation, and whether that's better or worse for the people that we're trying to protect.”

On the failed policy of maximum pressure in Iran, Murphy said: “The theory here goes that if we stay out of a nuclear agreement with Iran, if we continue to apply sanctions on Iran then that will decrease their support for terrorist groups in the region. There is no evidence to suggest that is the case. In fact, if you look at the period of time since we withdrew from the agreement, all we have seen is an increased level of Iranian involvement in Yemen, an increased amount of integration between Iran and the Houthi forces there.”

Last week, Murphy led a group of 11 senators in a letter urging U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken against the re-designation of the Houthi movement in Yemen as a Foreign Terrorist Organization (FTO). Last month, Murphy authored an op-ed in TIME to explain the urgency of the U.S. getting back into a nuclear agreement with Iran.

You can read Murphy’s full exchange with Steven Hagin, nominee for the Ambassador of the United States to the Republic of Yemen below:

MURPHY: “The theory here goes that if we stay out of a nuclear agreement with Iran, if we continue to apply sanctions on Iran then that will decrease their support for terrorist groups in the region. There is no evidence to suggest that is the case.

“In fact, if you look at the period of time since we withdrew from the agreement, all we have seen is an increased level of Iranian involvement in Yemen, an increased amount of integration between Iran and the Houthi forces there.

“What we have seen is that support for Iranian proxy groups in Iraq has increased. Those groups started firing at U.S. troops after we withdrew from the agreement. So this notion that if the United States continues to apply maximum pressure, that that is somehow going to convince the Iranians to stop funding groups in the region just doesn't bear out in reality.

“And as to this question of the designation of the Houthis as an FTO, we have to deal in the world of reality, right? Separate and  aside from what you think that term means, the practical impact of designating the Houthis as an FTO is famine. Is famine. And that's not me making that claim. That's the UN. That’s the World Food Programme. The World Food Programme says very clearly if you designate who the Houthis as an FTO we cannot operate inside Yemen. They go further – commercial food operators will not be able to operate inside Yemen.

“Now, maybe that's a flaw of our statutes, right, that the designation of an entity as a foreign terrorist organization has such extreme consequences for the people of that country. But that is the reality. And so, we have to think seriously about whether we want to subject millions of Yemenis to starvation as a consequence of that designation, and whether that's better or worse for the people that we're trying to protect.

“And I guess my only ask of you, Mr. Fagin, is that you consult along with the administration, with those operators on the ground who are going to be forced to pull out and submit the Yemeni people to famine and starvation if we go forward with this designation, given the fact that there are so many other ways that we can impose sanctions on Houthi leaders, as the Biden administration already has.

“Let me ask you this question, Mr. Fagin. My sense is that the Saudi-led coalition has not changed their perspective on the path to peace: escalation, escalation, escalation. We have to get into a de-escalatory cycle in Yemen in order to get to the table. We have been pressing the Saudis for the last year to open up the airport, to provide humanitarian pathways for relief agencies, to restart the Yemeni economy, but at the foundation, we've got to be able to convince both sides, the Houthis and the Saudis, that more escalation in Saada province, in Marib is just going to lead to more of the same. Am I correct in that assumption?”

FAGIN: “Senator, thank you for the question, and I share your concerns about the humanitarian situation and about escalation. As you know in February of 2021, the administration ended our support for offensive military operations in Yemen. That included the suspension of certain sales of munitions to Saudi Arabia. The administration has been pressing Saudi Arabia, the UAE, and all parties to de-escalate.

“Now, on the positive front, the Saudis, the UAE, the Government of Yemen, they support this UN led process. In fact, the administration has been successful in marshaling an international consensus in favor of this process, including at the Security Council. So we are behind this process, and we can bring these countries along.”

MURPHY: “I think we're gonna have to be tougher on our allies and partners in the region. We've got to be equally tough on the Houthis, but we've got to deliver, I think, a stronger message to our allies who continue to bring the fight to Yemen, notwithstanding the fact that it doesn't seem to be accruing to the benefit of their interests.

“Mr. Chairman, I'll submit a question to the record for Miss McKee. I want to make sure that USAIDs’ activities in funding anti-propaganda and anti-misinformation work in Europe is integrated with the work of the Global Engagement Center. I hope that we're going to pass a supplemental appropriations bill for Ukraine that will include a dramatic increase in the Global Engagement Center’s funding. That means we’ll be able to fight Russian propaganda about their efforts in Ukraine. USAID does a lot of this work as well and sometimes I worry that the two are not always working in close coordination, and so I’ll submit a question for the record on that subject. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.”

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