WASHINGTON – U.S. Senator Chris Murphy (D-Conn.) pressed U.S. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo during a U.S. Senate Foreign Relations Committee hearing on the need for the U.S. to invest more in the global race for 5G technology to catch up with China. Murphy noted that during his trip to Dublin, he learned that the Chinese embassy was significantly expanding its personnel at the same time China is pushing for a contract to build out the new high-speed network in Ireland. Murphy worried that the U.S. is being outmanned in the technology race, in part due to the U.S. State Department not being staffed with enough technology experts and other personnel to compete with the growing Chinese presence. He later asked Pompeo if there were more tools that the U.S. Congress can give the State Department to try to contest China’s global buildout of 5G. Murphy also separately referenced a Washington Post report that raised concerns over Saudi Arabia’s possible ballistic missile capabilities, and asked Pompeo to confirm that it is still the policy of the United States to oppose the proliferation of ballistic missile technology in the Middle East. 

“I worry that we’re losing this fight badly to the Chinese right now. In part because they just have staffed up and we haven’t. I also wonder whether there’s an opportunity to leverage U.S. companies, particularly in a place like Ireland, who should be sensitive to American data that they hold to be, maybe some point way down the line, an object of national security interests from the Chinese. So, what are the additional tools that we could give you to try to contest this fight over the global buildout of 5G?” said Murphy.

Complete transcript of Murphy’s exchange with Secretary Pompeo is below:

MURPHY: Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Good to see you again for the second day in a row, Secretary Pompeo. Let me just associate myself quickly with the remarks of the Ranking Member regarding the importance of information flows between this committee and the State Department. I understand that there’s lots of classified data that we will never see; that’s what the Intelligence Committee is for, but there’s some that rises to such level of importance that it affects decisions that we are making on this committee and in the Senate. I just anchor my comments in those made by the Ranking Member. Second, just a quick pushback on a piece of your opening statement, you did note that we are at record numbers of foreign service officers that suggests there is no hollowing out of the State Department happening. I would just remind the committee that’s because we have rejected the requests from this administration to dramatically reduce the budget of the State Department and, had we enacted the requests of this administration, you would be on a glide path to record low numbers for personnel. And again, I’ve never been of the mind that this is the budget you would write, Mr. Secretary, but it’s just a reminder that to the extent we still are holding the lines because we have stayed together on this committee.  

Mr. Secretary, I wanted to come back to the question of Chinese technology, 5G, and Huawei. I was in Dublin a couple months ago, and the embassy there noted that the Chinese Embassy was exploding with personnel. That was not coincidental to the open tender of the new high speed network in Ireland, a country that’s very important to us because we have a lot of American data there and a lot of American companies there. It struck me that we are just vastly outmanned when it comes to this contest. We have, you know, generally in embassies one State Department officer that’s handling technology, energy, and health care. Then we have military attaché that, you know, by and large are not technology experts in these places. So, you’ve talked in previous hearings about leveraging access to U.S. National Security apparatus. What are the other ways in which we can get on the right side of this fight? I worry that we’re losing this fight badly to the Chinese right now. In part because they just have staffed up and we haven’t. I also wonder whether there’s an opportunity to leverage U.S. companies, particularly in a place like Ireland who should be sensitive to American data that they hold to be at maybe some point way down the line, an object of national security interests from the Chinese. So, what are the additional tools that we could give you to try to contest this fight over the global buildout of 5G?

POMPEO: That’s an important question, I’ll take the second part of it first, the second idea contained in there. We, the State Department, has to do a better job at making sure American companies, frankly non-Chinese companies, but we’ll always fight for ours, but that the technology systems put in place in these countries have American values embedded within them: privacy protections, concepts of property rights, all the central things that we would want from a technology system. So, we have two functions. One is to make sure not only do those governments in a country like Ireland or someplace else as well as the private entities contemplating major technology acquisitions understand the risks associated with the Chinese technology and then we have to help our companies show up to compete. On 5G today we are behind. It is difficult to show up with a suite, and we will always have a direct cost disadvantage there. The Chinese will subsidize in ways that we just don’t. So, your point about leveraging the private sector, I think, is very real. In terms of what other tools do we need, it’s the case that we have just a handful of officers in most embassies around the world working on economic issues, but we have a big department. Our Secretary for Economic Affairs, I hope we get him confirmed before too long. So, we’ll do better at this. It comes out of that very space, the nominee does. I think we’re close. We have to show up with our full team, when there’s a competition, when there’s a tender, we have to show up there and make sure that the opportunity for an alternative choice is available.   

MURPHY: It’s the fight of the next twenty to fifty years, and we’re fools if we don’t staff up the State Department with technological expertise that can win this battle. One final question, I’m looking at a Washington Post article from January of this year entitled, Can Saudi Arabia Produce Ballistic Missiles?: Satellite Imagery Raises Suspicions. Notwithstanding our bipartisan concern about Iran’s ballistic missile program, is it still the policy of the United States to oppose the formation of ballistic missile technology in the Middle East? 

POMPEO: Yes. We are concerned about ballistic missiles in the Middle East and elsewhere.  

MURPHY: Thank you. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.   

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