WASHINGTON—U.S. Senator Chris Murphy (D-Conn.), a member of the U.S. Senate Foreign Relations Committee, on Sunday joined CNN’s State of the Union with CNN’s chief Washington correspondent Jake Tapper to discuss the death of ISIS leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi by U.S. special operations forces, the U.S. House of Representatives’ impeachment inquiry into President Donald Trump and how the president’s foreign policy is in total meltdown.

Murphy said of the killing of al-Baghdadi: “Ultimately taking out a leader of this kind of consequence is going to be a blow to ISIS and a reminder that there's no shelter from the American military to try to plot attacks against us or our friends."

Murphy continued: “Now, of course, this is all balanced by the fact that over the past several weeks, over 100 ISIS fighters have escaped detainment. And so well, there's no doubt that it's good that al-Baghdadi is gone from the world, the overall downside to the United States may be greater because we now have potentially over 100, if not more ISIS fighters, many of them probably very dangerous, reconstituting themselves.”

A full transcript of the interview is below.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST:  “Joining me now Democratic Senator Chris Murphy of Connecticut.  He is a member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.  Senator, thanks so much. 

“I want to start with the big news this morning.  You’ve been a vocal critic of President Trump’s policies in Syria and the Middle East, but this is, obviously, a big success for the U.S.  What is your reaction to the death of ISIS leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi?”

SEN. CHRIS MURPHY (D-CT):  “It’s big news.  It is important news. It accrues to the benefit of U.S. national security and I congratulate the entire team that made this possible.  Ultimately taking out a leader of this kind of consequence is going to be a blow to ISIS and a reminder that there’s no shelter from the American military if you try to plot attacks against us or our friends. 

“And it shows just how capable and professional our military is, not withstanding the disagreements that they’ve had with the president over Syria policy.  And if in fact some reports are true that the SDF may have contributed intelligence to this operation, it also shows how incredible our Kurdish partners continue to be, even though the president double-crossed them in Syria.

“Now, of course, this is all balanced by the fact that over the past several weeks over 100 ISIS fighters have escaped detainment.  And so while there’s no doubt that it’s good that Al-Baghdadi is gone from the world, the overall downside to the United States may be greater because we now have potentially over 100 if not more ISIS fighters, many of them probably very dangerous, reconstituting themselves.  So good news, but the overall sum of the actions that have happened in Syria over the course of the last couple weeks are not good news for the United States.”

TAPPER:  “You commended the entire team responsible for the death of Al-Baghdadi.  I assume that also includes President Trump, who -- who gave the final order and authorized the raid?”

MURPHY:  “We’ll learn more about the details of this raid, but if it looks as successful as early reports are, I think you have to -- you have to give credit to everyone who was part of this decision-making operation.”

TAPPER:  “Including President Trump.”

MURPHY:  “Including President Trump.”

TAPPER:  “All right.  Let’s turn to Ambassador Bill Taylor’s testimony in the impeachment inquiry.  He described a meeting that he had last month in Ukraine with you as well as the Chair of the Senate Homeland Security Committee, Senator Ron Johnson, and Ukrainian President Zelensky.  Taylor told Congress that, quote, my recollection of the meeting is that both senators stressed the bipartisan support for Ukraine in Washington was Ukraine’s most important strategic asset and that President Zelensky should not jeopardize that bipartisan support by getting drawn into U.S. domestic politics, unquote.  Does that square with your recollection of that meeting and if so, why do you think it was important to warn Zelensky about being drawn into U.S. domestic politics.  Why did you make a point of saying that?”

MURPHY:  “Well that’s an accurate representation of the meeting.  Listen, part of the reason that I chose to go to Ukraine in early September was that I had heard through multiple sources how uncomfortable the new Ukrainian administration was with these demands that they were being -- that they were being presented with by Rudy Giuliani and others representing themselves to be acting on behalf of Donald Trump and the United States government.  And I thought it was really important to be there with President Zelensky, who’s a total political novice, to tell him that he should not get dragged into American politics, that if he’s doing business with the United States, he should be doing business with the State Department, not with the president’s political fixers.

“And he understood that. He gave us a very positive response, told us that he had no interest in getting dragged into American politics.  But I was there before we knew the full scope of this corruption.  I was there before we knew that there was clearly a communication sent to President Zelensky and his team that they needed to investigate the Bidens and the Clintons through the re-litigation of the 2016 election if they were going to get a meeting with President Trump, and now as we know, if they were going to get aid released.  

“And so I’m very glad that I made the case to President Zelensky that he should stay out of American politics.  But at the time, I frankly didn’t know how bad this was.”

TAPPER:  “And you’ve said that the entire new Ukrainian administration was worried that the aid was being cut off as, quote, consequence for their unwillingness, at the time, to investigate the Bidens, unquote.  Did Zelensky or anyone else in Zelensky’s circle specifically mention the Bidens in that meeting and the demand that they investigate the Bidens?”

MURPHY:  “Well they did not specifically mention it to us.  Of course it was publicly reported that Rudy Giuliani was going to Zelensky and asking him to investigate the Bidens.  This was an open secret.  And so I was raising that issue with Zelensky.  I told him that it would not be good for Ukraine if they got dragged into American politics, and he agreed with me.  But you know, listen, I think the testimony now is -- is very clear that there was a quid pro quo.  But from very -- from the very beginning, I don’t believe that you needed to prove a quid pro quo in order for this to be totally corrupt and potentially impeachable. 

“The president of the United States cannot demand that a foreign country interfere in American politics, try to help his re-election efforts, no matter whether he is holding back aid or a meeting in the White House.  You can’t do that as the most powerful person on the earth.  And I think it makes it even worse that we now know that he was clearly trading away access to the White House and likely security aid to Ukraine.”

TAPPER:  “President Trump, obviously, is arguing out there that the impeachment isn’t legitimate and one of the reasons for that, in his view, is because the Ukrainians are probably saying that they didn’t feel any pressure at all.  You are saying that’s not true, they felt pressure.”

MURPHY:  “They felt pressure.  No doubt they felt pressure.  Of course they would feel pressure.  And, of course, Zelensky is going to try to put the best spin on this that he can because he is still in a dependent relationship with the United States.  Ukraine cannot survive the military assault that continues to this day from the Russians without American military aid.  They can’t survive without our support to keep IMF loans flowing to Ukraine. 

“So, of course, he is going to say that, you know, he didn’t and doesn’t feel any pressure, there was no blackmail, because he’s got to make sure that Trump continues to support his country.  But there is absolutely no doubt that the Ukrainians felt pressure to do what Giuliani was asking.  

“And it stands to reason that they would because anytime that your patron is telling you that you need to investigate a political rival in order to get aid or in order to get a meeting you are going to feel very uncomfortable being put in that position.”

TAPPER:  “You wrote an op-ed recently asserting that President Trump’s request for a probe into Burisma, that’s the Ukrainian firm that Hunter Biden worked for, is, quote, just the tip of the iceberg, unquote.  You write that, quote, Trump has abandoned Ukraine to Russia, it’s a missing piece of the impeachment debate, but how does that square with the fact that the military aid ultimately in September was released, and that was something that President Obama did not provide to the Ukrainians -- lethal aid?”

MURPHY:  “So the aid was really released once President Trump got caught.  Now it’s still unclear as to exactly what triggered the aid moving forward but it looks like the aid was released right around the time that the whistleblower came forward and the White House was under the -- understanding that this was all about to become public. 

“But the very fact that Trump was withholding the aid right at the beginning of Zelensky’s administration, right as Zelensky was trying to make overtures to Russia to try to engage in political talks, weakened the Ukrainian administration.  And Trump’s continued refusal to really admit the scope of Russia’s interference in 2016 and his refusal to do anything about it has also weakened Ukraine because Russia’s doing this same thing there.

“So in so many different ways this president has shown a lack of commitment to Ukraine, a lack of willingness to stand up to Russia, and that ultimately hurts Ukraine.  That ultimately weakens this new reform-minded president.  And simply dragging Ukraine into American politics is a distraction for a country that right now needs to be focusing all its energies on trying to protect its eastern border from Russian incursion.”

TAPPER:  “Your fellow Democratic Senator Elizabeth Warren from Massachusetts, she’s running for president obviously, she says that she has already seen enough evidence to convict President Trump in the Senate should impeachment go to the Senate for a vote on removal. Have you?” 

MURPHY:  “So I think the behavior that has been proven thus far looks impeachable to me, but of course it depends on what the actual articles of impeachment are that are sent to the Senate.  So I don’t think I can say how I would vote, because I ultimately can only vote on what the House sends us.  But I absolutely think that a president who has traded away the credibility of the United States in order to get a foreign country to destroy his political rivals has engaged in conduct that is worthy of impeachment. 

“Ultimately we can only vote on what is sent to us by the House, so I can’t, you know, declare what my vote will be.  But I don’t know why you have the power of impeachment if it’s not to hold accountable a president of the United States who has fundamentally corrupted the powers of his office to try to benefit himself politically.”

TAPPER:  “Senator Chris Murphy, Democrat of Connecticut, thank you so much for your time this morning. We appreciate it, sir.”

MURPHY:  “Thanks, Jake.”

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