WASHINGTON—U.S. Senator Chris Murphy (D-Conn.) on Thursday spoke at a U.S. Senate Foreign Relations Committee hearing on the nomination of Dr. Dafna Rand to serve as Assistant Secretary of State for Democracy, Human Rights, and Labor.

“I want to draw your attention to Egypt because this committee has been in a pretty regular fight, dispute, argument with the administration over the question of aid released to a country that doesn't [just] lock up dozens of political prisoners, doesn't [just] lock up hundreds of political prisoners – Egypt literally has tens of thousands of people in prison today for political crimes,” Murphy said. “And yet, it was Chairman Cardin, not the administration, who had to hold $235 million in FY22 military aid just so that the law was followed. The law says Egypt can't get this money unless they make progress on certain human rights issues, including significantly improving pre-trial detention practices, accelerating the pardon and release of those political prisoners, and more generally, providing space for human rights defenders.”

Murphy pushed back on the administration’s decision to send U.S. aid to Egypt despite human rights conditions that Congress placed on the security assistance: “The reason we always get from the administration on why we have to waive these human rights conditions with Egypt is that they won't cooperate or help us without the human rights conditions being waived. I think that fundamentally misunderstands the fact that many of the things that Egypt used to do 30 years ago just to please us, they now do today because they have independent strategic reasons.”

Murphy secured Dr. Rand’s commitment not to advocate for the release of U.S. aid to Egypt until conditions are met, with Rand saying: “On Egypt, you have my word that, if confirmed, as Assistant Secretary for DRL, I will be the voice at the table that takes U.S. law, and in this case, the very clear language in the report on the Foreign Operations bill about conditionality to Egypt that has been very clear now for the past three or four years, and make sure and advocate within the State Department and within the interagency to ensure that we adhere to the law, essentially, and we comply with these requirements regarding human rights.”

Murphy, who chaired a hearing on this issue last year, also raised U.S. policy towards Tunisia: “This is another country where we have an opportunity to use our aid as a clear signal about our frustration, displeasure, and worry about the quick slide away from democracy. We also have an opportunity to support civil society at a real moment of peril in Tunisia. We can withhold aid as a sign that we are serious about pushing human rights and democracy, but we can also flow aid to non-government actors in places like Tunisia who are still carrying on the fight.”

Last year, Murphy released a statement supporting Chairman of the U.S. Senate Foreign Relations Committee Ben Cardin’s (D-Md.) decision to block foreign military financing to Egypt until the country takes meaningful steps to improve human rights conditions in the country. Murphy also took to the U.S. Senate floor to call attention to Egypt’s egregious human rights record and urge the Biden administration to withhold the full $320 million in security aid that Congress made contingent on significant progress toward improving Egypt’s human rights record. 

A full transcript of Murphy’s exchange with Rand:

MURPHY: “Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Welcome to all three of our witnesses. Thank you very much for your continued willingness to serve the United States of America. Dr. Rand, I'm very glad that you're taking up this post. It's one of the most important in the Department. I, frankly, just want to build on Senator Van Hollen’s questions because I really do, I really do worry about the impression that is created around the world about our sincerity, when it comes to human rights when we continue to let some of our most important strategic and security allies get away with some just absolutely miserable human rights records.

“And I want to draw your attention to Egypt because this committee has been in a pretty regular fight, dispute, argument with the administration over the question of aid released to a country that doesn't lock up dozens of political prisoners, doesn't lock up hundreds of political prisoners – Egypt literally has tens of thousands of people in prison today for political crimes.

“And yet, it was Chairman Cardin, not the administration, who had to hold $235 million in FY22 military aid just so that the law was followed. The law says Egypt can't get this money unless they make progress on certain human rights issues, including significantly improving pre-trial detention practices, accelerating the pardon and release of those political prisoners, and more generally, providing space for human rights defenders.

“The reason we always get from the administration on why we have to waive these human rights conditions with Egypt is that they won't cooperate or help us without the human rights conditions being waived. I think that fundamentally misunderstands the fact that many of the things that Egypt used to do 30 years ago just to please us, they now do today because they have independent strategic reasons. For instance, to be in a security cooperative relationship with Israel.

“So I want to ask you, if you would commit to this committee that you will not advocate for releasing that $235 million until those conditions are met: progress on pretrial detention, the acceleration of pardon release of political prisoners, which include thousands of people imprisoned for speech and association, and the expansion of space for human rights defenders, civil society advocates, and political opposition.

RAND: “Senator, first of all, thank you for your service and your record on these issues and human rights in the Senate. We've worked together on other countries, and you've been an incredible champion, as has the chair.

“On Egypt, you have my word that, if confirmed, as Assistant Secretary for DRL, I will be the voice at the table that takes U.S. law, and in this case, the very clear language in the report on the Foreign Operations bill about conditionality to Egypt that has been very clear now for the past three or four years, and make sure and advocate within the State Department and within the interagency to ensure that we adhere to the law, essentially, and we comply with these requirements regarding human rights.

“I can't promise that I will always win these interagency debates, but I can promise you that if confirmed, I will be the voice at the table, making a clear, analytical, thoughtful, well-informed argument and trying to figure out how diplomatically we can change the situation on the ground because that ultimately is what's so worrisome. That with all these years since we've had these levers of accountability, the situation has gotten a little bit better here, a little bit worse this year, but fundamentally has not improved at all.

“And as you say, this is a country where we have a very complex, important strategic relationship. We have many issues that we're working on with Egypt. It's a very big country, a huge population, a young population. It's critical that we remain present, and their human rights situation is unacceptable.”

MURPHY: “Yeah, I don't disagree. I just think by and large in the Middle East, our policy sometimes gets stuck in like 1989, and we say the same things over and over and over again. And we assume that actors behave the same way they did thirty years ago. We give the same amount of money to Egypt that we did when we started our direct military financing relationship with them despite how things have so fundamentally changed.

“Mr. Chairman, I'm going to submit a question for the record on Tunisia. I would just note that last year's budget requests cited Tunisia as a possible recipient of additional military aid ‘if Tunisia shows signs of a return to democratic governance.’

“This is another country where we have an opportunity to use our aid as a clear signal about our frustration, displeasure, and worry about the quick slide away from democracy. We also have an opportunity to support civil society at a real moment of peril in Tunisia. We can withhold aid as a sign that we are serious about pushing human rights and democracy, but we can also flow aid to non-government actors in places like Tunisia who are still carrying on the fight. So this is another country that I know the Chairman cares about as well. And I'll submit a question or two for the record on Tunisia as well.”

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